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 Post subject: Laser Disc games VS games of today.... similarities?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:03 am 
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I was just thinking of something today...
Using Dragon's Lair as an example, people of today either love
the game or hate the game... You don't find many in between.

But when you think of WHY they hate the game, most people will
say that they don't like how the game plays. Memorizing moves
and moving the stick or the button only at certain times to go further
in the game. Wrong move, and its game over.

Now this may be comparing apples to oranges... but they are both
fruit.

I play all games, and wouldn't you consider games like Dance Dance
Revolution and Guitar Hero and others of the sort to be pretty much
the same thing, but at a faster pace?

You listen to a song. You push buttons at the exact moment, if you
time it right, you continue. If you press them wrong, you have to
try it over. In a strange way, this is Dragon's Lair, but DL is at a much
slower pace, since you are watching animation.

I bet people that Love DDR, but hate DL don't even make the connection.

...Thats all... just my "thought of the day" :)

DaveG (smashtvguy)


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 Post subject: You and I think, alike. ;)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:27 am 
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Hi smashtvguy,

You and I think, alike. ;)

I thought the same thing a few years ago. So, I did something about it.
I Created my LGIS (Laser Game Interactive System). I used my PC playing Laser Disc Games using Daphne, a USB PS2 Controller Coverter, and a PS2 DDR Controller Board hooked up to a Metal DDR Pad and 3 Opto. Sensors.

The Arrow Pads were used as Joystick Movments. The 3 Opto. Sensors were used as the Action Button. X was Player 1 Start and O was Player 2 Start.

For Dragon's Lair I used the Opto. Sensors for Sword / Left, Right, or Up Hand Action. And the Arrow Pads for the Joystick movments. X was Player 1 Start and O was Player 2 Start.
I also used a Plastic Sword for a Prop.

For Space Ace I used the Opto. Sensors for Left, Right, or Up Hand Action. And the Arrow Pads for the Joystick movments. X was Player 1 Start and O was Player 2 Start. I also created a Hand-Held Jostick, Trigger, with ENERGIZE Wrist Action Button
Controller.

For Cliff Hanger I used the Opto. Sensors for Hand Action. And the Arrow Pads for the Joystick movments. X was Player 1 Start / Foot Ation and O was Player 2 Start / Foot Action.

The 3 Games listed above were the only games that I have tested and do work with my LGIS. Of course, between the following games lsted above there involves some different wiring for each game. Dragon's Lair 2 was the only game that wouldn't work, because of the way that Dragon's Lair 2 is programmed.

Other Laser Disc Games might work, also, but I havn't had the time to test any others lately.

Yours Truly,

Tony M. Victorino

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:10 am 
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I love my ddr, but...you mean I could be playing DL on here?

Image

Thats messed up. :lol:

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www.davegrams.com


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 Post subject: Re: Laser Disc games VS games of today.... similarities?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:11 pm 
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smashtvguy wrote:
I play all games, and wouldn't you consider games like Dance Dance
Revolution and Guitar Hero and others of the sort to be pretty much
the same thing, but at a faster pace?


Yes, I totally agree!

Guitar Hero, DDR, and Dragon's Lair are basically all about timing and memorization :)


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 Post subject: Re: Laser Disc games VS games of today.... similarities?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:46 am 
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Matt Ownby wrote:
smashtvguy wrote:
I play all games, and wouldn't you consider games like Dance Dance
Revolution and Guitar Hero and others of the sort to be pretty much
the same thing, but at a faster pace?


Yes, I totally agree!

Guitar Hero, DDR, and Dragon's Lair are basically all about timing and memorization :)


I couldn't disagree more. While the gameplay mechanics are similar, the responsiveness isn't. With games like Dragon's Lair and Space Ace, people were frustrated because they didn't have direct control of the character (pressing left doesn't make dirk move left and even if it does, you have to watch a 5 sec clip first). Beatmani games, on the other hand have instant feedback. It is this feedback that makes them fun. Think how awful a game of guitar hero would be if the song just played as normal, with no visual or audio feedback of mistakes and then at the end it tallied your score. If it were a laserdisc game, that is how it would play. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Laser Disc games VS games of today.... similarities?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:20 am 
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HowardC wrote:

I couldn't disagree more. While the gameplay mechanics are similar, the responsiveness isn't. With games like Dragon's Lair and Space Ace, people were frustrated because they didn't have direct control of the character (pressing left doesn't make dirk move left and even if it does, you have to watch a 5 sec clip first).


Howard makes a great point here. When it comes to both game types, many LaserDisc games afforded less real-time "cause-and-effect" responsiveness to players in contrast to games like DDR and the like (I think MachIII may be a slight exception, from what little I know about it). So, being the visual creatures that we are, it really is no wonder that many players would become confused or frustrated with LD games since left never always truly meant "left" as it was translated on the screen through the pre-planned performances and/or animations. In contrast, the pseudo strum of a guitar rift, the smash of a directional foot pad and the tap of a pressure sensitive drum all relate the player's input real-time to the screen at an often breakneck pace with more player accountability for the outcome throughout the game cycle. So yes, they both are fruit, so to speak, but they are different types of fruit trees altogether when it comes to real-time responsiveness and player control.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:14 pm 
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Yes, when you get down to the details there are many major differences.

I guess I was just talking on 'simple' terms.

Patterens>Memorizing>Repetativeness... that is all I was getting
at.

:wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:43 pm 
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smashtvguy wrote:
Yes, when you get down to the details there are many major differences.

I guess I was just talking on 'simple' terms.

Patterens>Memorizing>Repetativeness... that is all I was getting
at.

:wink:


Well that's the thing though.... to play beatmani games you don't necessarially have those same elements. Take guitar hero for example. There are patterns, but I don't really know them as I'm pressing the proper button as it comes up on the screen. I don't need to memorize the song to complete it and I can complete it the first go unless it is on hard, so there is no real repetativeness.

Yes if you get down to a very basic level whaat you say is true, but it is true of ALL games. Take smb for example... the levels have no randomness to them so there are definate patterns you can memorize and if you suck you'll have to do the levels over and over.

Btw I commented on this exact same thing (either here or byoac) several months ago except I gave an example that is truely the same kind of mechanic, namely the action cut-scenes in resident evil 4. You are shown lavish animation upon you have no direct control of and then the screen flashes and you have to quickly press the appropriate button. You don't get instant feedback rather a win or lose animation depending upon how well you did. If you die then you have to do the entire sequence from scratch in the exact same order, showing the exact same animation. That my friend, is the laserdisc games legacy. Other games like God of War and prince of Persia picked up other, extremely similar mechanics. What you are describing though is just kinda sorta like ld games out of sheer concidicence.

To give a better example, resident evil 4 is a decendant of ld games while beatmani games are a decendant of wack-a-mole. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:35 am 
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smashtvguy wrote:
Patterens>Memorizing>Repetativeness... that is all I was getting at.


isn't that every game? :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:15 pm 
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HowardC wrote:
To give a better example, resident evil 4 is a decendant of ld games while beatmani games are a decendant of wack-a-mole. :)


With regards to the Leon action/decision sequences (RE4), I think that's a fair assement :)


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