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 Post subject: Help with DLE 2.1 timing in the Dragon's Lair.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:12 pm 
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OK, after 45 mins of repeating the Dragon's Lair over and over again, I give up. I get right to where you run up for the sword, then no matter what button I press, I die. I can manage the entire game on Hard using the F2 roms without losing a life, but I just can't figure this out at all. Can someone please tell me exactly what I'm supposed to do when using the DLE 2.1 ROM?

Any help would be greatly appreciated - my hairline can't take any more frustration.


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 Post subject: DLE 2.1 Dragon's Lair Solution. Giddy Goon Secret Revealed.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:55 am 
DAPHNE Tester
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Hi Carvey,

Here is the Solution of the DLE 2.1 Dragon's Lair:

Left, Left, Left, Down, Up, Down, Right, Right, Sword, Left, Right, Sword.

Like other Rooms in the Game, he changed much of the Movements and Timing to go with the way the Game Video Movements Play Out.

At the point that you say that you are at in the Dragon's Lair when you always die, I believe that you need to Press Right and Not a Button at All which is (Sword) to get the Magic Sword. You then Press Sword to use the Magic Sword to Block Singe's Flame. Then you must Press Left to dodge Singe's Tail, then Right to Dodge Signe's Flame, again. This will send Dirk toward Singe's Underbelly, you must then Press Sword to send the Magic Sword right into Singe's Underbelly.

Hope that this helps. ;)

Giddy Goon Secret Revealed:

If you play DLE 2.1 in Prototype Mode. In the Giddy Goon's Scene, you will notice that the Last Move is to Kill the Giddy Goon that is coming up the Stairs after Dirk, before Dirk exits the Room.

If you play DLE 2.1 in Standard Mode. In the Giddy Goon's Scene, you have a choice of either exiting the Scene or by Killing one more Giddy Goon that is coming up the Stairs after Dirk, before he exits the Room.
This will give you some extra points. And is how you can get the Ultimate
Ending Score of 333333, by ending the Game without losing a life in a Standard Game in Standard Mode.

In the Original Dragon's Lair Game Roms, this Action would have been a wrong move and would end in Death. But since the Prototype Footage has Dirk Killing the Giddy Goon that is coming up the Stairs at Dirk as a Correct Move, I beleive Dave H. decided to put this Correct Move in the Standard Mode, as well.

Of course some may argue that in the Prototype Mode the other two Giddy Goons get Kiled by the Trip Wire Trap of Spears, leaving only One Giddy Goon for Dirk to Kill. But in the Stanard Mode, even if Dirk Kills One of the Giddy Goons, there are still two others to Deal with.


Yours Truly,

Tony M. Victorino

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:30 am 
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Thank you so much! I have finally finished the DLE 2.1 version. You have no idea how many times I tried things similar to that and failed. I think I may have tried the actual solution more than once, but didn't time it correctly.

Since you were so helpful on the dragon, I don't suppose you could offer me a little more advice? What are the movements for the 'Mudmen' scene? On the F2 ROM, I just had to wait for Dirk to sheathe his sword and then press forward, but on the DLE 2.1 ROM, no matter when I press forward I die - even though it gives me the correct movement noise. It's getting a little old going through all the other scenes to get there and then failing and having to start again.

Interesting info on the Giddy Goons too - I had no idea that you could kill the extra Goons that follow you up the stairs. I'll have to give that a try during my next run.


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 Post subject: Madmen and Lizard King Solutions.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 11:19 pm 
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Hi Cavey,

On the Mudmen, yes, while using the F2 Roms, the Solution is Sword, Up, Up, Up, Up,, Up, Up, Up, Up. But on DLE 2.1 Roms the moves go with the Action on the Video, which is Sword, Left, Right, Up, Up, Up, Left, Up, Up.

And before you ask. The Lizard Kind while using DLE 2.1 Roms is Left, Right, Right, Right, Right, Right, Up, Sword, Left, Sword, Left, Sword.

In some Rooms while using DLE 2.1 Roms, there are also Shortcuts.
An Example of one is here in the Lizard King. For the First Move go Right Quickly instead of Left. You will bypass 3 hallways. There are other Rooms with Shorcuts, as well.


Yours Truly,

Tony M. Victorino

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 11:26 am 
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Thanks again. No need for any other explanations, the only one I couldn't manage was the 'Mudmen' scene. The final part of the Dragon's Lair made sense to me - I just wasn't timing it correctly, but the 'Mudmen' scene made more sense to me using the F2 roms on hard. Dirk's movement looks more up than left or right to me.

The Lizard King scene makes perfect sense and that's why I managed that one straight away - it goes exactly with the movie. Quite an improvement from the F2 ROM.


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 Post subject: Mudmen Scene Moves in DLE 2.1 Roms.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:12 am 
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Hi Cavery,

Mudmen Scene Moves in DLE 2.1 Roms.

If you really look closly at the animation, you can see Dirk does not truly go up, but around the first couple of Gyser Pools. At First Dirk is trapped, because he is confronted by the Munmen, and the Gyser is Active behind him. After he draws his Sword and realizes that it just bounces off the Mudmen and the Gyser behind Dirk has stopped. The Mudman that was to the Side o Dirk has moved with the rest of the Mudmen in front of Dirk. Dirk dose not really go up and Jumps over the Gyser Pool, instead he steps to the Left (Dirk's Right) and goes around the First Gyser, then he steps to the right (Dirk's Left) and goes around the next Gyser Pool.
So, these moves make a bit more sense to me. Of course, you can only tell which way Dirk moves only when you closly watch the Animation and only if you make the correct move. There are no flashes to tell Dirk which way to go at this point in the scene. Because of this, I think that is why they did the moves inb the F2 Roms to be more easy in this way. I also think that they did the same thing in the Lizard King Room, making it easy to do, because of lack of flashes. It is easier just to Press Sword over and over again at the end of the Lizard King, then Sword, Left, Sword, Left, Sword. But this is my opinion.

I'm glad that my Info. Helped.

If you also like Space Ace, you may like to try the SAE 1.0 Roms. The Game play much better with the Animation than the original A3 Roms.


Yours Truly,

Tony M. Victorino

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 Post subject: Re: Help with DLE 2.1 timing in the Dragon's Lair.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:48 pm 
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The fire reveals all. For the 2nd move of the Mudmen, fire shoots across the right side of the screen, and like all of the other moves of the game where the correct thing to do is to move away from fire, the correct move here is left. The death scene for this move seamlessly demonstrates that the crater behind Dirk is fatal, and with the Mudmen standing in front, and with fire on the right, the only way out is left, and that's where Dirk jumps after the next camera cut. There is no valid argument against it... the correct move here was animated to be left.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with DLE 2.1 timing in the Dragon's Lair.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 8:21 pm 
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There is plenty of valid argument against it, and indeed against the entire enhancement. For some of us old-time gamers who were around when Dragon's Lair first came out, the sight of a beautiful bona-fide DL machine at a classic gaming expo brings tears to our eyes. Those tears take on an entirely different character when we discover that the machine has the enhancement installed. For me personally, it is very frustrating and I feel like I have traveled umpteen hours for nothing. It is so upsetting that I *literally* have nightmares about it periodically. No, I am not kidding.

Going on autopilot and cruising through the original solution may hold no entertainment value for you, but for some of us sentimental DL players who were alive in the early 80's, it is everything. We WANT to save the fair-haired, blue-eyed Princess Daphne, not puzzle through a bunch of new moves and die. You have cheated us out of what could have been a wonderful trip down memory lane, just because YOU think figuring out the animation (or watching us get frustrated) is more fun. I will stay home and play my Amazon digital download, thank you very much.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with DLE 2.1 timing in the Dragon's Lair.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:59 am 
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Now hold on just a minute there. You did not respond correctly at all. (Or should I say "YOU" to follow your example) Let's get one thing straight here. I said there's no valid argument against THE DESIGN INTENTION OF THE ANIMATION, that the fire, crater and mudmen force Dirk to go left (his right).

And YOU replied by saying, "There is plenty of argument against it", and then YOU did not provide ANY such argument at all against THE ANIMATION and its irrefutability. All YOU did was go off on a tirade about your nostalgia.

So I'll reply again to correct you and to maintain... No, there is NOT any valid argument against the intention of the animation for that move being left.


Now... let's talk about enhancement in general... (an entirely separate topic you brought up in response to my pointing out the lack of valid argument against that move being left), and then let's also talk about a serious flaw with your message.


Since the release of DLE in 1999, die-hard nostalgic people have made it clear to me that my work is not for them. And they are correct. DLE is for people who wish to see the game's story flow more like its original development. Games are no longer developed without the artists and programmers working together to get the story straight, as failed to happen with Dragon's Lair. DLE software respects Dragon's Lair as an interactive film by holding our nostalgia in the past tense and unselfishly bringing the game to the appeal of a new audience who cannot quite as easily dismiss oddities like a dropping floor appearing 4 times during the same game. Dragon's Lair does not command the forefront with its visuals alone anymore. Story is now a more important factor than it was to the visually awe-struck teens in 1983. To not even recognize or acknowledge that the original program has always been detrimental to the animators' story, and to continue to impose that programming onto new generations in the name of a nostalgia that they don't have, is selfish towards them. But DLE was not originally made for the next generation, anyway. Ever since 1983, many of us DL fans have taken note of the original programming's shortcomings versus the film's story and longed for certain changes to the software to better align it. There will ALWAYS be a place for our nostalgia, and the history of the original 1983 software will always be preserved, but it was simply not what THE DESIGN OF THE STORY OF THE FILM was supposed to be, and there is no valid argument against THAT. (e.g. You don't put an introductory drawbridge scene in the final cut of your film with the intention for the software to cut it out.) So, there is a place for DLE among those who care about the story.

I have never once recommended that my ROM work be brought to any nostalgia-based arcade shows (other than when I personally brought it myself for controlled demonstrations). In fact, the documentation that accompanies my work clearly states, "The only intended application of these ROMs is to be installed into a Dragon's Lair arcade game and used privately by the game's owner. You are instructed not to use them in any other capacity." So when *YOU* encounter my work in a public place, *YOU* take that up solely with *THE OWNER* of the game who brought it there, and tell *THEM* about your nightmares. *I* did not "cheat you out of your trip down memory lane" or waste your day of traveling. *I* did not bring that game to that place. *I* did not "watch you get frustrated" with the game nor enjoyed doing so. *I* explicitly forbade that from happening. I stand by the instruction that I wrote, so YOU didn't need to be telling ANYTHING in your post to ME personally, because I was already fully aware of such concerns, and your apparent assumptions that I wasn't are extremely insulting to be honest. I don't care for your accusation of ME robbing you of memory lane because my work was brought to a public place against my written instruction. You have a lot of ignorant nerve by saying that. I mean seriously, consider my instruction and also my non-involvement with its violation, and then check the definition of the word ignorant, and that's the exact correct word for your post. Furthermore, even starting back in the pre-Daphne days, I served many times as a consultant and a beta-tester for Digital Leisure's products at their request in light of their lack of access to an arcade game to study, helping them on their quest for "arcade authenticity", which ultimately has led to the programming of the product that you said you'll stick with. I didn't hear you thanking me for that, now did I? Yes, that's right, the person responsible for DLE whom you just b1tch3d out is the same person who helped to advise Digital Leisure how to program the arcade authentic products that you want to stick with... the same person who had to virtually twist their arm out of its socket to get them to cut out the drawbridge scene, which they were completely flabbergasted at the concept of, and which they never really fully accepted, hence the "home" & "arcade" game modes.

Finally... Were you implying that I was not born, nor of adolescent age, when Dragon's Lair was released? And that I don't have my own nostalgic sentiment for the game in its original form? And that I did not possess my own original bona-fide DL arcade game in my house in 1987 as a teenager, "Silver Spoons-style", and still have it? If so, you would be wrong on all counts, which again could be chalked up to ignorance. I mean really, that's just the actual correct word to describe your post, and I am really offended by it. I welcome others' opinions of my work, but I won't be talked down to ignorantly on a personal level without bringing the ignorance to light.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with DLE 2.1 timing in the Dragon's Lair.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:28 am 
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> "Going on autopilot and cruising through the original solution may hold no entertainment value for you, but for some of us sentimental DL players who were alive in the early 80's, it is everything."
> "You have cheated us out of what could have been a wonderful trip down memory lane, just because YOU think figuring out the animation (or watching us get frustrated) is more fun."


Wow.... I mean WOW, how just totally & incredibly ignorant.
That was SO incredibly offensive, presumptuous, and just SO ignorant.

(insert youtube link to Michael Jackson saying "that's ignorant" on South Park... (video BHqgHFcmAOc) except that Matt O. doesn't like South Park)


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 Post subject: Re: Help with DLE 2.1 timing in the Dragon's Lair.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:53 pm 
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I for one love the DLE ROM's. And I was around when the original DL came out & grew up playing it it. I like the more accurate moves to the action you're watching. I like the action following a more logical flow, rather than just random scenes. I play both the arcade & DLE versions & appreciate them both for what they are. No one is forcing me to play one or the other. And it certainly doesn't ruin my childhood playing a different variation of the game


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 Post subject: Re: Help with DLE 2.1 timing in the Dragon's Lair.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:38 pm 
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mylife4iron wrote:
There is plenty of valid argument against it, and indeed against the entire enhancement. For some of us old-time gamers who were around when Dragon's Lair first came out, the sight of a beautiful bona-fide DL machine at a classic gaming expo brings tears to our eyes. Those tears take on an entirely different character when we discover that the machine has the enhancement installed. For me personally, it is very frustrating and I feel like I have traveled umpteen hours for nothing. It is so upsetting that I *literally* have nightmares about it periodically. No, I am not kidding.

Going on autopilot and cruising through the original solution may hold no entertainment value for you, but for some of us sentimental DL players who were alive in the early 80's, it is everything. We WANT to save the fair-haired, blue-eyed Princess Daphne, not puzzle through a bunch of new moves and die. You have cheated us out of what could have been a wonderful trip down memory lane, just because YOU think figuring out the animation (or watching us get frustrated) is more fun. I will stay home and play my Amazon digital download, thank you very much.


I think there's room for both the original "this is how it was when I was a kid" version and "Hey, let's do a cool modification" version. I am a fan of both approaches which is why I enjoy having the Merlin multi-ROM solution in my Dragon's Lair cabinet.

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 Post subject: Re: Help with DLE 2.1 timing in the Dragon's Lair.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:11 pm 
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Hi guys.
I'm playing to drangon's lair and I have a issues with this.
So , I'm using Maximus Arcade as front end and batch file to run it. Is it possible modify batch file in order to use the correct bios?

Many thaks.


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