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 Post subject: Help with Dragon's Lair scoreboard
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:48 am 
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I've read the info in the Wiki regarding how to make a custom cable to run an original scoreboard through the PC's parallel port. (http://www.daphne-emu.com/wiki/index.ph ... Scoreboard) If anyone has made one before, I could really use some help clarifying the instructions.

According to the pin-out diagram, pins 11, 12, and 13 are for the +5 volt power and pins 14, 15, and 16 are for the ground. My question is ... are all 3 power wires receiving power from the PC? (Meaning, are pins 11-13 all connected together to one wire going to the PC power supply?) The picture in the Wiki only shows 1 wire for power and 1 wire for the ground.

Any help with more detailed instructions would be greatly appreciated. If anyone should happen to have one preconstructed that they'd like to part with, feel free to drop me a line.

Thanks in advance!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:01 pm 
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Yes, there is only 1 wire for +5 V and 1 wire for ground going to the PC's power supply.

I don't know for sure, but I think your assumptions are correct.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:48 am 
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Thanks for the reply. Can anyone else confirm or deny that?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:48 am 
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On the original scoreboard circuit board, pins 11, 12, and 13 are tied together at the 16-pin connector, as are pins 14, 15, and 16. The reason for that (and not using a smaller connector) would most likely be to spread the power load across 3 wires each for power and ground vs one wire each. 16 LEDs is 128 segments and decimal points that could draw 3A @ 5V if all lit at once. I'm guessing that the designers didn't want to stress the wires or the connectors with all that power pumping through one ground pin (it's normally the ground wire that takes all the stress). I've seen power supply harnesses in minicomputers crisp because of too much pull over too few pins.

I'll have to dig out my harness to remember how I did it years ago, but it can't be too complicated - I ran it from an old P-133 laptop, the one I used for these pictures...


http://www.penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/retrogaming/scoreboard.html

-ethan


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 Post subject: Re: Help with Dragon's Lair scoreboard
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:41 am 
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OtherworldSteve wrote:
I've read the info in the Wiki regarding how to make a custom cable to run an original scoreboard through the PC's parallel port. (http://www.daphne-emu.com/wiki/index.ph ... Scoreboard) If anyone has made one before, I could really use some help clarifying the instructions.

According to the pin-out diagram, pins 11, 12, and 13 are for the +5 volt power and pins 14, 15, and 16 are for the ground. My question is ... are all 3 power wires receiving power from the PC? (Meaning, are pins 11-13 all connected together to one wire going to the PC power supply?) The picture in the Wiki only shows 1 wire for power and 1 wire for the ground.

Any help with more detailed instructions would be greatly appreciated. If anyone should happen to have one preconstructed that they'd like to part with, feel free to drop me a line.

Thanks in advance!


If you look at the pdf at dlp lair_s.zip, you see that 11,12,13 are all connected to +5v and the ground pins 14,15,16 are also connected. There is also a 470 mf capacitor for spike protection I presume. Just looking at the scorecard tells me this thing probably consumes a lot of power. Ethan is correct when he says the purpose is to spread the load. The small wires in that ribbon cable would overheat from the amp draw from not only the LED's, but the drivers (U1, U2) too. Also, this looks like a two layer PCB - "real estate" may have played a factor in the extra pins; perhaps one side of the pcb has power to U1 and U2 on pin 7,19 the other side for pulldown (presumably) on pin 9 (just guessing)- I'm not familiar with the 7218D. All three pins of ground and +5 are each connected to each other on the scorecard. So any pin from 11,12,13 can receive +5v and any pin from 14-16 can get ground and the score card will work. However, you should connect all pins as the instructions say.

I can in no way be held responsible for the suggestions contained in my post.(gotta have my disclaimer too ya know).

http://www.d-l-p-archive.com/schematics/lair_s.zip


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:16 am 
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Ethan wrote:
I'll have to dig out my harness to remember how I did it years ago, but it can't be too complicated


I found my boards and harness... turns out I recycled a PS/2 mouse cable and spiral-wrapped it alongside a custom-built DB25M cable for the parallel port. Makes sense - my old laptop had a PS/2 port on the back that never got used when I was running Daphne.

The keyboard port must not have had current limiting. If it weren't for the limited ability of modern USB ports to power external devices, I'd suggest doing that for new cables, but perhaps it might work anyway. USB is officially limited to 100mA per port until the device negotiates a higher current requirement; but even that tops out at 500mA. Having just gone over the data sheet for the ICM7218 driver chip, it appears that the current draw is lower than I initially estimated, most likely due to the effects of multiplex strobe. If I read the data sheet correctly, one ICM7218 could draw up to 300mA @ 5V if all the digits are set to '8', pushing the total draw for a scoreboard (2 chips plus LEDs) over the 500mA limit. OTOH, it might work, especially if one isn't flashing random numbers on the LEDs.

As soon as I can find a PS/2-to-USB converter dongle, I'll probably give this a go, then report back. Either way, an external 5V power supply would take care of lighting up the unit. In the meantime, if anyone else out there has a scoreboard, original or replica, please share any stories or pictures you might have. I'm really happy I can run Daphne with real external hardware, and am happy to help others to do the same.

-ethan


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:06 am 
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I'm kinda gettin' enterested in building one of these. Looks like the two most important parts are readily availiable. What are the dimensions of that board? 5.5"x11"?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:36 pm 
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ztomiccomputers wrote:
I'm kinda gettin' enterested in building one of these. Looks like the two most important parts are readily availiable. What are the dimensions of that board? 5.5"x11"?


As I describe on http://www.penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/retrogaming/scoreboard.html,
5.25" x 9" (13.3cm x 21.5cm).

I have my original and replica boards out now. As soon as I finish blowing the dust off of them, I'm planning on better pictures with my present digital camera. 5 years ago, my only digital camera was a vintage 1994 Apple QuickTake 150, a 640x480 camera with two modes, awul and worse. They crammed 16 pictures into 1MB of FLASH on "awful" mode, and 32 pictures in "worse" mode. Needless to say, details get lost when crushing pictures down that far.

Maybe when the weather gets nice I'll start working on a cabinet. I have all the guts - just need the time and space to get a repro cab going.

-ethan


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 Post subject: Repo scoreboard and Daphne problems
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:19 am 
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Hi - well I guess I am relativatly a new comer to trying this and I have read through the documentation and other problems people are having, but so far nothing has helped.

Basically, what I get is the score board with random characters on it and it nevers seems to reset. Verified the wiring many times and all is good. Daphne works fine.

Now I am running Daphne in XP Pro x64 - could that be the problem?

Happens (or lack of anything happening) in Dragon's Lair or Space Ace.

Thanks

***Log file

--DAPHNE version 1.0.10
--Command line is: daphne.exe lair vldp -framefile D:/Daphne/vldp_dl/lair/lair.txt -blank_searches -min_seek_delay 1000 -seek_frames_per_ms 20 -homedir D:\Daphne -scoreboard -scoreport 0 -bank 0 11111001 -bank 1 00100111 -sound_buffer 2048 -fullscreen -x 640 -y 480
--CPU : GenuineIntel 3000 MHz || Mem : 1984 megs
--OS : Windows NT Derivative || Video : ATI RADEON XPRESS 200 Series
--OpenGL: Compiled In
--RGB2YUV Function: MMX
--Line Blending Function: MMX
--Audio Mixing Function: MMX
Setting alternate home dir:
D:\Daphne
Enabling external scoreboard...
Setting scoreboard port to 1000
Setting sound buffer size to 2048
Setting screen width to 640
Setting screen height to 480
Set 640x480 at 16 bpp with flags: 80000001
Initializing sound system ...
GI Sound chip initialized at 2000000 Hz
No joysticks detected
Remapping input ...
Loading compressed ROM image dl_f2_u1.bin...8192 bytes read.
Loading compressed ROM image dl_f2_u2.bin...8192 bytes read.
Loading compressed ROM image dl_f2_u3.bin...8192 bytes read.
Loading compressed ROM image dl_f2_u4.bin...8192 bytes read.
Framefile parse succeeded. Video/Audio directory is: D:/Daphne/vldp_dl/lair/./
YUV overlay is hardware accelerated.
Opening parallel port at address 0x378
Booting ROM ...
Play
LDP : disc is already playing, play command ignored
Play
Display disable received
Search to 323 received - [25] Attract Mode, Sequence 0 Attract Mode
search succeeded d0
Play
Display disable received
Search to 306 received - [25] Attract Mode, Sequence 0 Attract Mode
search succeeded d0
LDP NOTE: ignoring seek because we're already on that frame
search succeeded d0
Search to 1424 received - [ 0] Introduction, Sequence 0
search succeeded d0
Play
Closing parallel port
Freeing memory used to store audio stream...
Shutting down sound system...


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 Post subject: Re: Repo scoreboard and Daphne problems
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:29 pm 
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Mickey_Moose wrote:
Hi - well I guess I am relativatly a new comer to trying this and I have read through the documentation and other problems people are having, but so far nothing has helped.

Basically, what I get is the score board with random characters on it and it nevers seems to reset. Verified the wiring many times and all is good. Daphne works fine.

Now I am running Daphne in XP Pro x64 - could that be the problem?

Happens (or lack of anything happening) in Dragon's Lair or Space Ace.

Thanks


Well one thing you could do to eliminate some uncertainty is to download an Ubuntu linux live CD and try Daphne with the scoreboard with linux (no installation required). If you just run it in "noldp" mode without any video, it will still drive the scoreboard and you can see if you get the same results. This may help you narrow down the problem.

I've never tried running the scoreboard in 64-bit windows so I don't even know if it would work.


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 Post subject: Re: Repo scoreboard and Daphne problems
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:46 pm 
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Matt Ownby wrote:
Mickey_Moose wrote:
Hi - well I guess I am relativatly a new comer to trying this and I have read through the documentation and other problems people are having, but so far nothing has helped.

Basically, what I get is the score board with random characters on it and it nevers seems to reset. Verified the wiring many times and all is good. Daphne works fine.

Now I am running Daphne in XP Pro x64 - could that be the problem?

Happens (or lack of anything happening) in Dragon's Lair or Space Ace.

Thanks


Well one thing you could do to eliminate some uncertainty is to download an Ubuntu linux live CD and try Daphne with the scoreboard with linux (no installation required). If you just run it in "noldp" mode without any video, it will still drive the scoreboard and you can see if you get the same results. This may help you narrow down the problem.

I've never tried running the scoreboard in 64-bit windows so I don't even know if it would work.


Thanks for the suggestion, don't know why I didn't think of booting with another OS. I will give it a try this weekend and let you know what I find.
:D


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:26 am 
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Ok, just an update, I ended up installing the 32bit version of Windows XP and all is good now. So it looks like it is just an issue that the scoreboard will not work with the 64 bit version.

Cheers,
Tim


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 Post subject: Re: Help with Dragon's Lair scoreboard
PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:13 am 
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I know I posted an intention to build a cabinet more than a little while ago, but I've recently secured access to a 4'x8' CNC wood router and a 12"x24" laser cutter. I have the scoreboard, of course, and the plexi to go over it, but all I've found for download is external cabinet dimensions. Does anyone here have plans that include the dimensions for the wooden bit that the scoreboard and speakers mount to?

Thanks,

-ethan


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 Post subject: Re: Help with Dragon's Lair scoreboard
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 11:19 pm 
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Ethan,

Look up The Dragon's Lair Project; and, if you haven't, hit up KLOV forums and ask around there.


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 Post subject: Re: Help with Dragon's Lair scoreboard
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 2:50 am 
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[quote="tantamount"]Look up The Dragon's Lair Project; and, if you haven't, hit up KLOV forums and ask around there.[/quote]

I've already been around that track a couple of laps. I did get someone to send me a drawing with a different point of origin than I was using (all of my measurements were referenced from the top left - these are referenced from all four sides) and in millimeters (rather than imperial, which I expect the original was drawn around), and I have a hybrid of that drawing and my plexi measurements that I hope to get cut out in the next couple of weeks.

I suspect that by the end of Summer, I'll have a ready-to-cut-with Shopbot project file that I'll be happy to share, but I'll probably have to piece it together one cut at a time (it's more complex than a simple DXF or PDF since it includes specific toolpaths for specific-sized router bits).

-ethan


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